Mhmm
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I will admit that thereās something alluring about a confident, showman-type villain, especially if theyāre absolutely unhinged. Thatās always been a thing, though. Itās nothing new. Disneyās been doing it for ages. So has DC. A lot of the time, theyāre just more interesting than the quiet, sad, whiny, entitled villains that lurk in the shadows, and because itās fiction, itās really fun.
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I think thatās a false paradigm.
Thatās it. I never know how to spell it in English.
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Ah, youāre welcome for the help
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Iām afraid I donāt know what type of villain you are referring to, because Iām not going to listen to a big list of songs to figure out what your argument is. Youāve used them exclusively for your examples instead of writing out what this type of villain you are so unsatisfied with is, and I donāt have time to try and decode it by listening to several different songs that share a vibe. It would be easier if you just spelled it out for me.
That being said, what I gathered from the discussion is that you donāt like conventionally attractive villains because that somehow makes them shallow and less intimidating? If thatās the case, I think you fail to see the purpose of those types of villains, because their charm is used to disarm their enemies and make you underestimate them. They are meant to appear shallow and unintimidating on purpose, so that when their true complexity and dark nature become apparent, it shows the protagonist that they were even more dangerous than a villain that is obviously a villain at first glance. Just because a person is pleasant to look at, doesnāt mean they arenāt capable of doing horrendous things.
Granted, a lot of currently popular media does not write these types of villains well, missing the point entirely and romanticizing them rather than revealing their atrocities in a way that disturbs the reader and makes them aware of the dangers of trusting a pretty face. But I blame poor writers and stupid trends for that more than the actual character type.
Again though, that was just speculation picked up after reading what other people were saying. I still have no idea if thatās what you actually meant or not because I donāt have time to listen to all those songs and try to interpret them into what you meant, especially when music is subjective and I might be entirely off base if I did that too.
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People seem to act as if these kinds of villains are the best, forgetting that a villain that is less human can make for great, epic conflicts.
The complexity is lost because every time I see a mysterious, dark, alluring, and charismatic character introduced, I will always assume that they are villainous in some way. The twist is gone, the intrigue is gone, I donāt feel intimidated, I just feel bored.
It sounds like you feel that itās been overdone to the point of cliche, which is entirely understandable. But you also have to understand that only in the past hundred years or so has this villain type even become popularized, and the reason it was, was because physically monsterous villains were thought to be overdone to the point of cliche in their time as well. It seems the script has been flipped, which is just a natural progression of time. Perhaps itās time to bring back the monsterous villains instead of the charismatic ones for a time? I donāt think either of them are inherently wrong, they both fade in and out of popularity every so often, and sometimes we get tired of seeing one when itās s currently the most portrayed in media. But that doesnāt mean itās bad, it just means itās time for a fresh rotation.
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Iām just wanting some villains that have more interesting characterizations beyond āambitious, unhinged, charistmaticā and are able to generate massive amount of conflict easily. Sometimes people become so enamored by their theatrical personalities they forget what their purpose in the story even is.
What are some examples of other characteristics you would like to see in villains instead?
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Maybe they are more solitary and isolated, to the point they only talk to their henchmen over the phone. This keeps them more mysterious and intimidating, while providing characterization.
Maybe they like to hoard resources because they are paranoid of anyone else getting plot coupons. This makes the heroes have to be more resourceful.
Maybe they are very close to their family, to the point the less morally upright members of team good decide to stir up family drama.
Think about traits that real people have that, when taken too far, can cause a lot of harm.
Mmm, my problem with this is that it villainizes introverts and people with mental illness (such as social anxiety that keeps people from talking to others face to face, etcā¦), and we already get a bad rap. Portraying people like that as villains can be potentially harmful. However, if written with a hero that shares the introverted trait or has a similar mental illness, that would show that it isnt the introversion or mental illness that causes people to be villains and there is still a choice involved.
One could argue the charismatic, conventionally attractive villain could be capable of doing this too.
Same argument as above, but also, this could make the heroes out to be villains and the villain out to be a victim very easily. Not to say blurring the lines wouldnāt be excellent for a story, but it would make it more difficult to clearly define the villain as a villain.
I also have to argue that the real āvillainsā of society we face today are people who are charismatic enough to have money and power and it is their greed and corruption that make them villains. These people fit more into the category of the villains you donāt like than the ones you are trying to advocate to see more of. In my own personal experience, Iāve been mistreated by people that I thought were my friends or people that cared about me and had my best interest at heart, only to betray me and defy my expectations than I have run into people that I could tell right away that they were terrible people. Granted, Iāve wised up and been able to identify those people more easily now that I am older, but that is only due to experience and not those people being obvious about their intentions in the way they look and act. Stirring up a lot of conflict is much easier when you do it from within someoneās trust rather than before youāve decieved them.
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Usually those charismatic people look and act like everyone else. They arenāt overly sexy or attractive or cool, just normal.
The more they are like a normal person, they scarier they can be, and arguably, the more intimidating they can be.
LOL
Hey, they are memorable, no?
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I can agree with that.
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That is the very core of my problem with these cool villains. They never feel like a real, normal person, and as such, are less disturbing.
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Not really.
I mean there was a time where I prefer villains to be evil for no apparent reason other than the fact that itās being different and interesting to them.
Now, things changed.
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Part of this was due to psychological studies pushing the idea that your life forged you instead of you being evil: which certainly does happen, but it was devoid of clearly acknowledging culpability in a lot of light readsā¦
More simply: relatability changed with a shift in societal paradigms seperate from the adoration of the villain. Itās debatable which came first, but the merging of the two aspects is later than the shift of both.
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So would you say your problem is more a lack of realism?
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