Topic: Fictional demons, demons in fiction, what are the tropes, what have you read, what do you like, and do you have any of these in your stories? What’s the lore?
Most importantly, do people like to see demons in fiction?
Whenever I think about Their Posthumous Lives duology, I think about the demon part of the lore. It’s underdeveloped, but it’s coming along. There’s two different demon cultures because there’s two different religions involved.
I know, in real life, demonology is a thing and there’s various versions of demons in all sorts of religions. If not actually called “demon” they’re called other things. If not actually evil (like the devil in Christianity), there’s gods who do bad things (like in Hinduism where there’s no evil deity but there are flawed deities).
In fiction, horror movies LOVE demons. If there’s no demon in a horror movie…well, you can say the dead girl’s ghost turned vengeful, but when it comes to those victims who are still alive, it’s pretty hard to explain why the girl is doing a spider walk upside down.
I always view anything related to demons (fictional or not) as controversial. If you put anything out there about demons, you’ve basically made an enemy out of some religions.
I’ve always gone back and forth about releasing Their Posthumous Lives to the world one day and not just on Wattpad. The biggest reason is that demons are not evil. They’re just living their lives and it’s certainly written that way. The humans are actually more evil than the demons. Are people ready to be called out?
Anyway, for now, it lives on Wattpad. Back to you guys.
It depends on the demon and the “levels” of possession.
So, I have the basic type of possession. When a demon desires to possess a person, they need the hosts consent to do so (a sort of agreement). Demons are obsessed with deals, contracts. “If I possess you, I will give you this…”. This, however, can be coerced/manipulated. Most of the time, demons will sense when someone’s emotions are… strong, particularly emotions of despair and desperation. They seek out this person and speak into their minds eye, often using a voice, a face, something that resembles someone the person trusts and loves. They offer that person whatever they desire in that moment, in exchange, that person will be theirs. If the person agrees, the demonic being enters the host.
It happens relatively quickly. The demon goes in, they establish a connection to their host, they take hold of their hosts desires and soul, and (depending) then they materialize around that person using the atmosphere and environment to take shape (since magic itself is woven into the atmosphere).
It’s important here to note that in most cases of basic possession the host is still “alive” inside the materialized version of the demon, like, if the demon desired it could revert back to the host and live inside it simply–looking, for all intents and purposes, like a normal person if they so desired and they do not always need to materialize in order to take control of the host.
Demons, most of them, were once humans. When they are in the demon world, they are unable to experience really anything other than torture and debauchery. But these demons still possess a longing for their mortal lives. Whether it’s to experience once again the taste of food, to experience emotions, to experience the full range of violence. Demons themselves only possess a fraction of emotion and a fraction of pain sensitivity. So, why they could just spend time in the demon world torturing demons lesser to them (if this is their desire), the demons they torture would not really have a pain threshold and therefore not be as satisfying as torturing someone who 1) Actually felt it and, 2) Actually had something to lose. So, they spend their time honing their powers, honing their combat abilities, and waiting for an escape. Since the door has cracked open, it’s only really a matter of time.
Demons in their world are veritably starved, stuck in constant torture, and feel nothing. They have no purpose, they have nothing what-so-ever except the longing of their once mortal lives.
Demons live in the death domain known as the “Magma” (probably going to change this name later, but for substitution purposes that’s what I’ve been calling it), where they dwell surrounded by lava and chaos and basically what you might picture as ‘hell’.
They aren’t necessarily ruled by anyone. They’re there to suffer and wait in judgement. The technical “keeper” of them, though, is Bastian–the father of sin, the keeper of death. He guards the death domain’s doors and, if powerful demons escape, is tasked with hunting them down and throwing them back into hell. But he himself rarely ever goes to Magma nor does he often communicate with them.
Nothing, they are stuck in constant starvation. In their raw demonic form, even if they managed to get food, it would taste like ash.
The only time they can eat food is when they possess a human body. As to what they eat–really anything they want. It could be something as simple as human food they liked in their once mortal lives, or it could be a disturbing craving such as human beings.
This depends on how powerful the demon is and what type it is.
For a ‘basic’ possession, though, it’s relatively simple. You must first draw out the demon so it materializes, then, you essentially pin-point where the host would be inside them (as the demon manifests around them, not from them) and strike the host where it would kill them. Through the neck, heart, artery, what have you. This is easier explained than executed, as many times the demon’s skin is very thick, like armor, so you not only have to calculate the demons weak points but also how to get to the person inside the demon.
Once this happen, the manifestation of the demon “melts” (for lack of a better word) away, and becomes nothing but gore. Then you have to do several rituals involving the rare magic metal (mekhos, which is what the orsa’s are made of) and say some specific words in the Old Tongue (which is religious blessings and basically asking Bastian to come guide the soul back to where it belongs) which basically condemns it back to hell. Once this is done, the body is taken to a pyre and burnt for one day and one night until they’re completely ashen. They are buried upon holy ground, and sang rites after death for the passing of their soul.
Demons themselves can’t really be killed, though. It’s much like Greek lore. They’re basically just sent back to where they came from to suffer eternally. Once sent back, they are significantly weakened but they can escape once again.
Yes, everyone has the ability to see demons, especially if they’re manifesting out in the open. Demons themselves have appeared once in a blue moon–but it’s difficult to latch onto the material plane due to where the current doorway is in my universe, so it’s not often they get out. Still, I’d say you’d probably see demon possession (the full form of it, like manifestation and everything) once a year, maybe once every two years. So, generally, their existence is undeniable.
So, demons have the ability to access what is known as ‘death magic’ which is a magic only accessible to those who have fully and completely crossed over. This magic can be used for good, like if good-natured spirits wish to bestow gifts on loved ones (though this is not common, as usually once you die, you go to a peaceful plain of existence and aren’t really allowed to leave). Most of the time, though, this magic is used to wreak havoc. Demons themselves possess only a fragment of death magic, which basically allows them to sicken people (cause plagues) or curse someone.
On top of this, they are ridiculously strong, powerful, and humungous. They could wreak havoc (and most prefer to) with their bare hands that quadruples the damage 10 fully trained men could do, and they have naturally formed armor, they are super difficult to take down once it’s fully manifested.
Hmm, so how much self does the host retain. Can they talk to the demon or just live a normal life if they wanted to? How much control do they have over their own bodies?
Can more than one demon ever possess a person? In my story, Alive At Crepusculum, more than one demon can possess a person, but it’s usually only lesser demons.
Speaking of lesser demons, do you have different types of demons and do they have different ways of possession?
One of the biggest differences between your lore and mine Interesting. So, are demons basically punished criminal humans? Are they able to see the mortal world from where they are?
So, Magma is like the underworld? People who do bad things end up there after death?
Bastian sounds cool. Another difference–not ruled by anyone. So, how do demons suffer then? Who decides what level of suffering someone gets or do they all receive the same level of suffering?
So, what would happen if Bastian is away hunting down a demon, but then someone else escapes or tries to cause chaos at the doors? Does he command others to work for him at all?
Yay, another difference But with a slight similarity.
The demons in my lore don’t eat much in the underworld but it’s not like they can’t. They just don’t. Especially the top guys. They’re like camels able to live without water for a long time. Demons can live without food for a long time and not feel hungry.
The lesser demons are like snakes. If they eat one good corrupt soul, it can last them for quite some time which also gives them time to find the next host. The higher demons can be like snakes, but they prefer to consume a lot.
As for human food, my demons were never humans, and there is some human food that tastes absolutely awful to them like pumpkin pie.
I thought the possession would look something like they do in horror movies. Okay, so it’s really a complete take over? That’s pretty cool. So, there’s no way to save the human and just destroy the demon?
I see. You just send them back and hope they don’t return. That’s like the horror movies My demon lore is slightly different. While you can send them back from where they came which weakens them (similar to your lore), there is one single way for them to be killed completely, but it’s a big risk for all parties involved, so it’s never been done. It has to do with angelic counterparts.
Huh So whoever decides this doesn’t even want good spirits to leave to do good things? What happens to good-natured spirits who are caught bestowing gifts?
The magic is another big difference. In my lore, demons each have their own set of powers and the higher-ranked the demon, the more variety of powers they have. Demons can share powers with their humans, so there’s a character, Richard who is a seer of the future and this is thanks to his demon (nicknamed Charcoal). Richard can only see glimpses and Charcoal can see everything and even choose what he wants to see.
Sounds like some kind of cosmic horror / Eldritch thing. Do they all look the same?
It kind of depends on what sort of deal they struck with the demons.
A character in my story goes through a period of severe depression after she becomes pregnant with a child she doesn’t want. Her mother forces her to keep the baby and locks her in a room. She isn’t allowed to speak to anyone or see anyone besides her. As time goes by, she becomes so depressed that she wishes for an escape and a voice comes to her and offers her companionship in her lonely time. Eventually, the voice offers to release her from her misery and allow her some peace. This is, of course, a double-edged sword because as soon as she accepts the deal she is immediately sent to the gates of death and the demon who tricked her now possesses her body. In this case, she retains 0 autonomy of her body or sense of self, essentially, her soul has been removed and her body left an awaiting husk for the demon to take for their own self.
In another instance, Character A desires to control and to essentially own Character B who has ran away with Character C. By this point in their life, Character A is in a maddening sense of grief over the loss of her husband, and doesn’t want to be alone. She desires to kill Character C so Character B won’t run away again. The demon presents itself as her dead husband and makes an agreement: she will be granted the power to kill Character C and take Character B hostage back to their estate, and once that is through Character A will grant the demon use of her body. Once she does so, she retains her sense of self long enough for the deal to be followed through with. Once the deal is complete, her soul will be extracted from the body so that the demon can fully possess it.
Ooh, that’s really cool, and makes for an interesting conflict amongst the demons themselves as they fight for different amounts of control.
That is not an ability demons possess here, they’re too greedy to share control, and lesser demons rarely make it out of the doorway and find someone to possess–it’s mostly either mid-tier demons or powerful ones that are able to actually make it through the doorway out of their world and possess someone.
There are lesser demons! But they rarely make an appearance (at first ), but there are different ways of possession. Sometimes a stronger demon will send a larva of itself into the world. This is usually done if there’s a battle nearby to the doorway. They send their larva to the battlefield and the larva possesses that of dying men and women–once the larva’s host dies, it moves onto the next person, and the next, until the larva finds someone strong enough to latch onto.
It’s done to weed out the weak, especially if there’s such a large pool of coconsciousness for the demon to choose from, so he just sends a little crony to scout ahead and find a good host for them before they decide to slip out of the door and latch on fully.
OOO where do demons come from in your lore?
No, sadly, they can see a small doorway that has cracked open, but it’s guarded by one of Bastians’ (the keeper of deaths) familiars and it’s very difficult to get through. They don’t really see much beyond this crack–they are, alas, forced to gaze only at molten rock and one another.
Basically, yes :).
Bastian is very cool, one of my favorite characters. Demons are essentially depraved and inflict torment onto one another, tortures so profound and ghastly I won’t name any here. No one really decides their level of suffering, but it’s very ‘strong survive, weak do not’.
Demons, I should mention, can grow in power and ascend from that of a lesser demon into a “normal” demon–though this takes a hefty amount of time. Most of the time, the lesser demons are prey to anyone stronger than them. There’s always someone weaker, and there’s always bad people being turned into even more demons so they never really run out of other beings to torture or engage in battle with–which is also common. It’s basically a mess of war/torture with no purpose nor end in sight.
So, Bastian has two animal companions. A rotting, malnourished hound (which makes him sound sort of weak and terrifying, but trust, he is extremely powerful), and a vulture. The vulture guards the crack in the doorway leading to Magma, and the hound is usually the one sent out to track down the demon that’s escaped. The hound devours the demon that’s escaped and brings it back to hell. Bastian himself rarely ever leaves, though there have been times he himself has had to go and collect an exceedingly powerful demon–in which case he leaves the hound in charge of the gate.
Woahh, this is so cool! I love your analogy to animals for the way their diets work and their general disgust towards human food lmaoo.
Any reason why they don’t like pumpkin pie specifically XD
Technically, there is, but the people in my world have yet to discover it. They are a very “the means justify the ends” sort of people, and I can’t really blame them for it. They would rather be 1000% positive that a demon has fully and completely exorcised than they would save the soul of the person the demon has latched onto. It’s pretty sad, especially in situations where the person didn’t exactly know what they were getting themselves into, when they were manipulated and tricked. But they try their best to honor the dead after they have died.
As for how it works to save the person, it’s somewhat complicated and I haven’t completely sorted out all of the details, but I wanted it to have something to do with “reaching” the hosts soul and having a sort of battle of wills with the demons why others weaken the demon from the other side. Like I said, still haven’t completely sorted it out, but I for sure want there to be a way. A sort of evolution in their own knowledge and findings.
OOh! The idea of angelic counterparts is so cool, especially considering the potential foil that can be found in characters like that. Also the idea that it’s so dangerous also makes it more intriguing and risky.
No, the Gods who command Bastian do not like the death domains and the mortal planes to cross over what-so-ever. They believe these things should remain completely separated and consider these domains crossing-over would be sinful and would corrupt the pureness and the essence of life.
Nothing really happens to a good spirit bestowing gifts. Most of the time, it’s a spirit who died in a funny/unnatural sort of way who hasn’t completely crossed over as they were supposed to. It’s rare, but these spirits sometimes visit their loved ones and bestow gifts. It’s not like they know the rules, and their intentions were entirely pure. They are found out pretty quickly, and Bastian just brings them to the death domain and escorts them peacefully onto death.
I love the nickname! And also this is so cool! It kind of reminds me of DND lore with how warlocks sort of work, which is so interesting to me. The idea of demons and humans intermingling with one another and sharing power can create some cool dynamics, especially because you’re always a little wary of where ones intentions lie with that sort of thing. Is there some sort of contract a human has to agree to in order to gain the powers of a demon? Are their a lot of risks involved?
Yeees, I’m deep into eldritch horror! Demons can and do share visual similarities to one another, but there is always something pretty unique about them usually in relation to how they looked like/behaved like when they were humans. This is partially (and very loosely) inspired by different mythologies. Like, werewolves were often compared to predators and cannibals as an example. Humans used werewolves to rationalize the evils of men, thus, they gave them a distinctly inhuman appearance and characteristics sort of thing. So, a demonic being who was a cannibal might have some very wolfish features, and so on and so forth.
Actually, there is no conflict among lesser demons. The human becomes like a vessel of their being able to exist in the land of the living. And lesser demons can only take a human through rituals done by other humans. Humans call upon them and only then can they leave the land of the dead.
I imagine it’s kind of like this:
Demon 1: emerges into the vessel
Demon 2: Hi, they called me, too.
Demon 3: Hi. Oh, there’s two.
Demon 1: It’s going to get crowded.
Demon 4: Darn it, there’s already three others here? Can the humans stop?
Oh, so her soul dies at possession? The demon keeps the body alive?
What happens if the demon just up and leaves? Can they go back to Magma? Can the soul return to the body?
This reminds me of a game where you play as this alien worm creature that’s just arrived on Earth. You have to make sure you don’t die, but also figure out the order of things to click to eat stronger and stronger prey to take on their features and become stronger. In the end, you’re supposed to devour an adult human with a gun to be become unstoppable.
Anyway, that’s pretty cool. So, in that case, it really is like some kind of alien parasite situation. What does the larva look like?
Hmm. I have another bit of demon lore based in another culture (it’s the sequel Dead By Sunrise) and demons there can split their personalities off into full creatures or beings to be used as spies or scouts.
Demons are well, demons Okay, what I mean is they are a different species. There’s humans, demons, and angelics. Demons and angelics are like ethereal creatures made out of energies and stuff. You can’t touch demons or angelics most of the time. Powerful demons can make their bodies into more solid forms especially if they’ve eaten, contracted with a human, or they’re just so powerful they have the ability to retain their solid forms in the land of the living for long periods of time.
That is such a bleak life
Okay, so it’s basically the apocalypse every day. Is there any sense of time passing?
How did Magma come about? Do you have a Magma creation story thought up? I haven’t thought of a creation story for my land of the dead. I imagine it was always there.
Animal companions are the best. Do the two animals get along? Can they talk or communicate somehow? You mentioned Bastian has familiars before, are these the familiars?
Thanks! And no reason for the pumpkin pie It was just the first thing that came to my mind. The duology is also dark humor and satire, so there’s a lot of funny bits. Richard, one of the MCs, has just been through a demon-killing. He found out someone he took in had a lesser demon in their body. So, his demon, Charcoal, eats it to send it back to the land of the dead.
Better to show you than tell you.
this is the short scene
“Are there more in her?” Richard heaved whatever was left of his stomach and slouched on the bathroom floor. The only thing he hated about being connected to Charcoal was that they shared taste buds, but not always the same taste buds.
“He was the only one. Delightful, too. That burnt flesh—”
“Shut up, Charlie!” Richard spat and heaved again. “I’m going to get you for this. Pumpkin pie tonight.”
It was Charcoal’s turn to scowl. For some reason, pumpkin pie was one of the few human foods that bothered demons.
I actually have something Might give you ideas?
In my lore, there’s also the spirit realm where lost souls like those overtaken by demons, those unsure if they want to move on, go to. If someone (like a medium or other spiritual person) has a demon or an angelic, they can use the demon or angelic as a guide to get the soul back into the person. Most likely the angelic would help, not the demon, but it depends on the demon.
The person will return to their body and demon would be sent back to the land of the dead. But the person would remember many horrific things because they go in and out of awareness during possession. So…it’s not really a happy ending.
Maybe for you there could be a place like limbo or some other in between realm or something where it’s possible for a battle of wills to happen? I like the battle of wills idea. Maybe the “will” appears as a form of energy beamed out of their foreheads? Just a wild idea
Thanks It’s something that just happened to come about when I had to explain why a certain character had the power to retrieve someone’s soul from the spirit realm, essentially resurrecting them shortly after their death.
There’s a reason why the satirical, dark humor duology is called Their Posthumous Lives. Posthumous and humorous
I think I agree with the gods Chaos would ensue if they did mix because there’s those pesky demons. Does Bastian agree with the gods?
Oh yes, a contract. The contract is important. Similar to how your demons work, they appear to those vulnerable. But they also appear to those that interest them because humans are just so incredibly entertaining to demons. Charcoal approached Richard for entertainment. As long as he never meets his angelic, Charcoal lives for eternity, so he has to have some fun.
Each demon has a different contract with different downsides/risks. Charcoal said he would grant Richard some powers in exchange to live in his shadow and Richard must kill corrupt humans to feed Charcoal. To some, that’s probably a big no-no and great risk, but Richard was an assassin, so, no problem.
Disney is going to make more live-action remakes.
Why do you think they seem to be doing this a lot now? Do you like it? Thoughts?
Personally, I don’t think we need any more. We have ruined enough of them, imo. Disney needs to come up with original stories and they can go find them in fiction books…but then the problem is, probably authors don’t want to sign with them, right?
What happened to the days of Shaggy Dog and The Great Dane and other old classic Disney films? Will Disney’s golden era never return?
There’s a Spanish nursery rhyme that involved an increasing amount of elephants delicately balancing on a spiderweb and they keep calling in for another one of their friends to join. Eventually, the web breaks but how many elephants the web was able to support depends on who ever is singing.
I guess that spider must be a Jorogumo or something to support even one elephant’s weight.
I wouldn’t mind them making more live-action movies if they were original.
But Hollywood these days hates risks, because movies are so expensive to make. A few billion minimum, and they need to make twice as much to be successful.
I know that they are only going to remake the films that have some amount of previoius success-they’re remaking Moana and not The Emperor’s New Groove, for example. They’ve already cleared out most of the best of the Disney Rennaisance films-all they have left are Tarzan, Heracules, and maybe The Great Mouse Detective. If they remake The Great Mouse Detective I’m going to be so pissed…
They should do a remake of The Black Cauldron, something darker and closer to the book. The Black Cauldron is part of a magnificent and beloved series of fantasy novels, I’d compare it to Howl’s Moving Castle and such, but the original film suuuuuucks. You can tell that it was originally meant to be a lot darker but then they changed it at the last minute to be family-friendly and cutesy.
I’m going to be real with you, if they decide to do a live-action remake of Fantasia…
So whoever decides this doesn’t even want good spirits to leave to do good things? What happens to good-natured spirits who are caught bestowing gifts?
), but there are different ways of possession. Sometimes a stronger demon will send a larva of itself into the world. This is usually done if there’s a battle nearby to the doorway. They send their larva to the battlefield and the larva possesses that of dying men and women–once the larva’s host dies, it moves onto the next person, and the next, until the larva finds someone strong enough to latch onto.
