Calling all unorganized writers! Tell me your messy process!

[rachelsfloetry]

I’m currently working on my desktop app meant for writers. I intend to use the tool myself so I can confirm it’s useful and polish it as I go. I was never one of those writers that used the snowflake method, or the six acts, or whatever the latest “system” is for writing a novel. Probably the ADHD but the writing is motivation based and as long as I can keep that dopamine going, I can maintain interest and gasp! Finish a thing!

So I have several documents for one novel. It’s super messy. Not just drafts, but lore, me figuring out timelines, me just figuring out dialogue. It’s made it harder to track things over time, to find certain things I wrote because like, which friggin’ doc did I write that in? I tend to not write in chronological order but when I do attempt to order things, I need to be able to swap around existing chapters easily. I also realized I overthink when I write, get stuck on editing, hesitate on removing stuff, but if my writing was version controlled, that would eliminate a lot of that because you can always have a history of what’s changed, you can always revert, and you can have several versions of a thing that doesn’t necessarily mean you need several documents. Hence the app.

So I wanted to hear from other messy writers. Are there any functional things or features that makes writing harder for you? What kinds of blockers do you have? Are you also a writer that hops between projects and has way too many documents for each? Do you avoid or have you tried all these “methods” other novelists or writers recommend only to abandon them because you find it overwhelming and you just need to write the darn thing?

I want to hear about other people’s messy processes because you are the kind of writers I want to help.

[CoffeebyNight]

I am a very messy writer. I’m not sure if any of this helps you, but here’s just some of the things I rely on heavily when writing:

• Scene/chapter summaries, all within the document and easy to view at a glance (multiple views, ideally - I like my writing pane to be next to the list of summaries)
• Being able to move my chapters and scenes around at will. Sounds not-so-useful, but it has saved me many times lol. Sometimes a chapter just needs to be moved around
• Colour coding/keyword stamping, because I like to know POVs and status at a glance
• All my research for characters, world, religions etc in one place that is easy to flip through
• Word count targets for the session. It is fiiine to see that my document is 40k words, but that isn’t motivational for me… but being able to set a target of 1000 words, and then resetting it once I hit it, or setting my daily target to 10k to keep myself on track… that is motivational

Basically, I just like having everything available in one window, without needing to tab out or look around for tools online or in other documents etc.

[alcoholandcaffeine]

Restoring versions sounds cool! Especially if it is per scene or chapter, not just the whole document.

And speaking of scene/chapter summaries, these could also be version controlled. With my current WIP I’ve often gone back and forth like you said, and I made chapter summaries for the first time just because I’ve been writing it for so long, and it’s annoying having to constantly rewrite them because I keep changing chapters

On thar note, some sort of “notes” or research section within the chapter summary itself would be useful. In such a summary, I need to include date, time, location per scene, perhaps sometimes a list of characters present, but also - writing historical fiction, I use a looooot of references. So it would help to have in the summary the research I based a scene on. Ie, reference pictures for what characters are wearing, links or short summaries for real historical events, source for describing an automobile in 1895

And the biggest thing for me would be a way to build an expanding/editable family tree. I have lots of families to keep track of, and sometimes I have to go back to parents/grandparents/great-grandparents, other times I have to remember that certain characters have just had babies

I’ve begun using OneNote for my notes, summaries, and research, if that helps as a reference. I like having the different tabs and sections and notebooks, basically keeping all my books in one place but still separate. And recently I’ve enjoyed using the collaborative features of Ellipsus tho I didn’t like writing in it.

Maybe I should have put this first, but for me the most important feature of any (desktop) writing tool is auto-capitalization. At the very least of I’s and the beginning of a new sentence after a period. That is the only reason why I cannot write in Google Docs or Ellipsus. I’m so used to Word’s auto-capitalization that my brain cannot process anything else. A tool can literally have all the bells and whistles, without auto-capitalization I will not use it maybe just for notes. But even then, probably very little.

[rachelsfloetry]

@CoffeebyNight

Scene/chapter summaries, all within the document and easy to view at a glance

Meaning summaries you write yourself or some kind of AI-generated summary? @CoffeebyNight

@CoffeebyNight

Being able to move my chapters and scenes around at will.

This! This is a feature I definitely want to implement. I’ve needed this too.

@CoffeebyNight

Colour coding/keyword stamping

Are you manually color coding or are there tools that automatically do this? I’m not sure what you mean by keyword stamping?

[rachelsfloetry]

@alcoholandcaffeine

Especially if it is per scene or chapter, not just the whole document.

Ooh! This is something I have to think about. Would be cool to have for sure.

@alcoholandcaffeine

On thar note, some sort of “notes” or research section within the chapter summary itself would be useful. In such a summary, I need to include date, time, location per scene, perhaps sometimes a list of characters present, but also - writing historical fiction, I use a looooot of references. So it would help to have in the summary the research I based a scene on. Ie, reference pictures for what characters are wearing, links or short summaries for real historical events, source for describing an automobile in 1895

That sounds like a lot for one app to handle. What tools do you currently use for this or do you use multiple?

@alcoholandcaffeine

I’ve begun using OneNote for my notes, summaries, and research, if that helps as a reference.

I’ll check it out! Thanks!

@alcoholandcaffeine

And recently I’ve enjoyed using the collaborative features of Ellipsus tho I didn’t like writing in it.

Can you tell me more about why you don’t like the writing experience in Ellipsus?

[CoffeebyNight]

@rachelsfloetry

Meaning summaries you write yourself or some kind of AI-generated summary?

Summaries I write myself!

@rachelsfloetry

Are you manually color coding or are there tools that automatically do this? I’m not sure what you mean by keyword stamping?

Just a Scrivener feature, I just pick the colour and it applies on the corner of the scene card. For keyword stamping, just a tag across the summary card so like, for example, colour code in the corner so I know what the POV of that chapter is, keyword with ‘In Progress’ or ‘First Draft’ for instance. It saves me.

Figured a screenshot would be useful. Your app could look different, but this is how I set it up for me - the pin is the colour code segment.

[LordOfTheRiver]

Okay, my chaotic process explained!

(As a side note, I think I am someone who creates structure wherever I go, just as a General perspective. But I also do tend to have messy documents)

So, my writing process is as follows:

Open document. Write down cool story idea. Close document.

Different day. Open new document. Write beginning of the story. Hate the beginning of the story, close document.

Repeat for like 5 or 6 times, And oh, remember to always hate the story.

Then you finally get over yourself. Come on. You know you’re not that bad of a writer, right? So you can do it a 7th time. You like it.

But then you realize “Oh, no, I don’t understand the characters! And the setting!”

You make a character manual with everyone’s details. You make a world building document. You force yourself to do it because you know it’s tedious, but it’ll pay off in the end.

And then you never look at it again!

You don’t need anymore, because everything is in your memory anyway.

(Also it’s worth mentioning, by the way, that I have a photographic memory. So, I remember a lot of things really, really well, including entire plots of books. I only use pen and paper to process information.)

I’d say the biggest issue I’ve had before using scrivener was the sheer amount of duplicates I had of things. Different versions, different stages of editing, different storylines, all with the same characters. It was really hard to sort out EVERY TIME.

[alcoholandcaffeine]

@rachelsfloetry

That sounds like a lot for one app to handle. What tools do you currently use for this or do you use multiple?

I just put it all in OneNote or I try to remember it but then I forget or I make changes in the chapter but never in the notes

@rachelsfloetry

Can you tell me more about why you don’t like the writing experience in Ellipsus?

It’s because of the missing auto-capitalization I mentioned

[rachelsfloetry]

@LordOfTheRiver

Repeat for like 5 or 6 times, And oh, remember to always hate the story.

Well at least you’re successfully breaking down tasks into smaller tasks, so progress? In my case, I get overwhelmed. I write too much. I think too much. Then it becomes a dump of stuff that I don’t know how to trim/organize and depending on how tedious that becomes, I may abandon it.

That’s cool that you have photographic memory! I wish! I look at something and like 2 seconds later, be like wait, let me look at that again, it’s gone from my brain.

[rachelsfloetry]

Definitely adding capitalization to my app’s list of basic features, no worries. It seems like such a minor thing, but I get you. It’s like auto-complete when I write code. I’m so used to it that if I use a different program to write code and it doesn’t auto-complete, it makes me feel like I’ve slowed down, not to mention now I have to use brain energy towards something that should be automatic.

[rachelsfloetry]

For chapter summaries, there are notes in Scrivener too, right? Are they the same feature and you can use them as a chapter summary or are they two separate features?

[LordOfTheRiver]

@rachelsfloetry

down tasks into smaller tasks, so progress?

Yes agreed.

@rachelsfloetry

That’s cool that you have photographic memory! I wish! I look at something and like 2 seconds later, be like wait, let me look at that again, it’s gone from my brain.

ACTUALLY- no you don’t. And it doesn’t work that way
I’ll explain in a minute but essentially PTSD sucks.

[LordOfTheRiver]

@rachelsfloetry

I look at something and like 2 seconds later, be like wait, let me look at that again, it’s gone from my brain.

not how it works

I have AuDHD too, so that happens to me all the time the thing is, however, I remember (with incredible accuracy) things that happened to me years ago without even trying.

the flip side of the is that PTSD is SO bad with it i’m LITERALLY sucked back in time to the event as if I WERE THERE and I have to relive every horrid detail over and over until someone snaps me out of it

so yeah… my memories don’t fade with time, for better or worse.

[CoffeebyNight]

They’re separate features but yeah you could use them instead I just prefer corkboard view to overview!

[Churro]

I just use Pages/Google Docs/Word (depends on the story) to write and then I use the Apple Notes App mainly for brain dumping Yeah, I know I could be more organised. I do use Notion if I really need to organise stuff, but not so much for the zero draft.

I think if I plan/expect too much, it takes the focus, fun and the interest out of the zero draft for me. Going with the flow is the best thing for me. I can and will refine it later.

[CoffeebyNight]

What is an AI reader?