Have you tried the Bechdel-Wallace test?

[Kamiccola]

Does your book pass the Bechdel-Wallace test?

1. It has to have at least 2 women in it who have names.
2. Those women talk to each other.
3. About something other than a man.

Such a simple test…

This 1985 comic strip is what popularized the idea.

The test has been used to spark the research of underrepresentation of women in media.

Most blockbuster movies fail this test.

Here’s one depressing combination of several studies of movies.

More studies were made, each one more alarming.

So, the tough question to ask ourselves is, are we helping to reverse this trend or continuing it? Is it so much ingrained in our society that we can’t help but see this as normal?

[Kamiccola]

I’ve been thinking about my own books with a critical eye, trying to see if they would pass this test.

It certainly doesn’t help that I like writing from a male pov. But I think it’s even more important that the book passes especially if I write it from a man’s pov.

I’m questioning everything now and am wondering how I can improve it.

For example, in one book, I have plenty of named female characters, and they talk to each other, but the book is written from a guy’s pov so he’s not privy to their private conversations.

And so the only conversations he witnesses are:

1. Women complimenting each other which morphs into fashion chat.
2. One woman is trying to change the topic of conversation and starts praising doilies, another woman joins, and then another. (it’s ridiculous on purpose)

Seriously? Is that the best I can do?
I’m motivated to edit to add at least one little but meaningful conversation between women, but I’m not sure where within the book it would fit.

The problem I’m facing is that the main character is pretty self absorbed so he’s not paying much attention to others. Also, it’s not a long book so I don’t have much space to play in.

So it’s a challenge. But it’s such a simple test. I hate that in order to pass it I have to bring up the fashion chat mini-scene or the damn doilies. Ugh…

[Qualeshia12]

So, the point of this test is to see if women can discuss anything unrelated to men and fashion and compliment each other?

I mean that is interesting. I’ve heard of this test before.

[alcoholandcaffeine]

I think about this sometimes and I hate that it takes conscious effort to pass it I like to think I tackle a fair bit of feminist themes, but even then, it usually involves putting a man in his place, exploring one’s troubled relationships to men, figuring out conflicts with men etc. And these men aren’t always love interests, they’re sons and cousins and fathers-in-law. I think (most of) my books pass, but I’m not sure

[Kamiccola]

To be exact, it’s a test to see if women in your book talk to each other about anything other than men.

Fashion counts as a pass, but I wish I could bring up a better example in this particular book.

…
Okay, let’s look at another. This one is a dual pov, a man and a woman.

It’s a romance so it’s understandable why there’s men mentioned in a girl talk, but if I look at the men in the story, do they have scenes that don’t revolve around women, the answer is a confident yes.

So this dual pov book fails big time in my eyes.
I’m still working on it so I’ll definitely have room to address this, so I’m glad that I noticed it this early on.

[Kamiccola]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m seeing. We grew up seeing this as the norm and it takes conscious effort to break out of it.

So much of the plot revolves around the men. It’s like the women don’t have enough individual stake in the story, even when I think I have a strong and complex women in my stories, there aren’t enough complex relationships between women themselves.

[Qualeshia12]

@Kamiccola

To be exact, it’s a test to see if women in your book talk to each other about anything other than men.

Fashion counts as a pass, but I wish I could bring up a better example in this particular book.

Pssh! I totally do that! I don’t even recall my female characters talking about men and fashion. Just random things in regards to each other or the missions.

If they were to talk about a guy, it’s because they are annoying or did something of importance.

My story is an epic action and adventure science-fantasy.

[Qualeshia12]

Has there ever been a story where the women had some sort of agency away from men?

@alcoholandcaffeine That’s so true it hurts! Makes you wonder about what society truly wants in a woman.

[Churro]

Well, if Gabe’s Tia and Abuelita are talking about tortillas then yeah I pass

[Qualeshia12]

Just tortillas? Do they chat about any other dish?

[Churro]

Salsa, the food, family and the telenovela they watch that I made up called Passiones Del Fuego lol.

[Qualeshia12]

Ooh!

[alcoholandcaffeine]

@Kamiccola

there aren’t enough complex relationships between women themselves.

That part But, regarding what you mentioned about men having conversations about anything other than women… I don’t think I pass that one, either So maybe there is a balance in my writing

I’m trying to think of the scenes which might pass the Bechdel test, but I can’t recall everything… Vodka Espresso passes with the first scene, where two (female) friends talk about holiday plans – their relationship is later central to the plot. I think Seacliff passes when a mother and daughter briefly talk about patriotism. And The Spying Cat should pass it at least that one time two (female) cousins talk about 2 other women in their family. That only leaves Tequila Americano among my novels But maybe there’s something in there I just can’t recall

LE: There is a scene in TA where the female protagonist talks to a supporting female character about her grandmother. Yes! Both the grandmother and the supporting female character are central to the protagonist’s development.

[Qualeshia12]

@alcoholandcaffeine

But, regarding what you mentioned about men having conversations about anything other than women… I don’t think I pass that one, either So maybe there is a balance in my writing

You just made me think about the males too. I sorta passed I guess. LOL!
stares at Nieven

[Kamiccola]

@alcoholandcaffeine

regarding what you mentioned about men having conversations about anything other than women… I don’t think I pass that one, either So maybe there is a balance in my writing

I think that’s a balance then.

[alcoholandcaffeine]

A win is a win, lol

[Akje]

Thing is I’m writing historical fiction, and the women are infantalized and dismissed by the men in this book because women in that time period really were infantalized and dismissed by men. One of the male characters starts to question this after the hotel maid he knocks up either poisons herself or jumps out a window–I haven’t decided which yet–but then he decides Nah, not my problem. So glad I’m a man so I can walk away from unwanted pregnancy! Cuz…men. Yeah. Argh. ☜(ˆ▿ˆc)

[alcoholandcaffeine]

But that still doesn’t mean that women don’t talk to each other about things other than men. I write historical fiction, too, and it can feel harder to do that, but I do actually think they had more non-male topics of conversation because they separated the male/female spheres of influence so much. So you could quite comfortably have women talking about fashion or some menial domestic task without involving a man.

Or there’s one of my favourite topics, suffragettes lol. Upper-class women loved to hate on them and I think working-class women couldn’t quite be bothered to understand why these ladies were wasting their time demanding the right to vote

[Kamiccola]

Alright, time for some analysis. Let’s see what female relationships I have in my many projects:

Soul Survivor: mild pass 🤷‍♀️ - I'd like to improve it.

Finished.
Ian’s pov.

Ian’s mom + Ciara: good relationship but not very deep. They talk briefly when Ciara compliments her dress.

Ian’s mom + Aunt Lillian: poor relationship, more complex, but they also don’t talk to each other, other than Mom trying to change the topic to the doilies. Later, Aunt Lillian indirectly insults her (honestly, I think that’s even worse if you’re insulted in the third person). Even the insult involves a man, though.

Ciara + Sam: good relationship, complex. But every conversation centers around Ian. I mean, Ciara set them up.

Sam + Ian’s mom: poor relationship, complex, but they don’t talk to each other (because they can’t). If they did, it would center around Ian though.

Soul Seekers: mild pass. 🙃 Could use improvement.

Drafted.
Ian’s pov.

Melody + Sam: they barely know each other. If they spoke, it would likely be about Ian because of the circumstances.

Melody + Ciara: more complex relationship, but I don’t think they have a conversation without Ian. (Melody is magically tied to him so there’s zero chance for a girl talk).

Hmm. Is that it? There’s the ghost of the old lady at the bus stop, but I can’t remember if I gave her a name. Plus, I don’t think much talking happens with her.

Come to think of it, this book has a very limited cast. So that’s it.
Oh my. I need to look into this book some more.

Edit: I just realized. There’s a conversation between Sam and Melody that’s not about a man. So it’s a pass but barely. Just one little chat.

Soul Crusher: mild pass 🤷‍♀️ but with potential for a good pass

Book is only started.
Samantha’s pov.

Sam + Marlene: complex relationship. They talk a bit about work but then they talk about men. A lot.

Sam + Paula + Kamini: complex best friend circle. they talk about school, life, etc. and about guys.

Sam + Ciara: complex relationship. They talk about Sam’s future and a lot about guys.

I think the only other female character I could have Sam talk to NOT about boys is her mom. Right now I don’t have a scene between them. I only talk about her mom.

Considering how boy-centric all other conversations are, I’m more motivated to put a scene between them on paper.

The Madman of the Woods: mild pass. 🤷‍♀️ Needs improvement.

Drafted.
Dual pov between Lailoken and Josie.

Josie and Banshee: simple complexity (hero vs villain). They don’t talk about men.

Josie and River: they don’t know each other much. Only talk about men.

River and her mom: their relationship isn’t explored much. they only talk about Lailoken.

Josie and her mom: I initially planned to have a scene between them, then didn’t. Now I’m thinking I MUST write that scene because in it there’s plenty of opportunity to discuss Josie’s life, and not guys (though her dad might be mentioned in there).

Twice Upon a Tail: pass ✅

Only started.
Tabby’s POV.

Tabby and Tuxie: complex relationship. They rarely talk about men.

Tuxie and her grandmother: complex relationship. No talk about men.

I actually don’t know what characters I’ll add. Likely more cats. But due to the premise of the story, this one is easy to pass.

The trick: the major story plot is between two female characters.

This one would fail the opposite test: if there are enough male characters that talk about anything other than women. At least so far. We’ll see what other characters I add.

The Merlin Paradox, vol 1: fail 😐

Drafted.
2 male povs, 1 female.

Tristine + Carnelia: complex best friend relationship. They talk about men, then about work but that’s also centered around complaining about men.

Tristine + Yoke: potential for a complex relationship but it’s not explored. Brief conversation that’s mostly centered around a man.

Tristine + Agatte: they barely know each other. It’s inevitable for Agatte’s male boss to be mentioned in the context. Unless I added a brief interaction prior to that? Small talk? I’ll see if it’s doable.

Hmmm. I can’t think of more.
It’s a limited cast book so I don’t have much to choose from to improve this. There’s always the possibility of regendering the cop character. It wouldn’t help pass this test though because Tristine talks to the cop about a man.

I think expanding the conversation between Tristine and Carnelia to touch on a non-men related topic is the best chance I have of correcting this book.

The Merlin Paradox, vol 2. Pass ✅

Drafted.
2 male povs. I’m considering adding a third female pov.

Amphora + Agatte: complex relationship. They talk about things other than men.

Tristine + Carnelia: I can’t remember well, it’s been a while since I wrote it, but I think they briefly talk about guns.

I’m not sure if there are other women only conversations in this one. My memory’s terrible. But it’s a larger cast and more non-men related topics.

The Merlin Paradox, vol 3. 🤷‍♀️ Needs work to pass.

Only started this one.
Dual pov, both guys.

I don’t think I wrote any female-only conversations yet.

Let’s see what opportunities I have in this one.

Amphora + her mom. I predict I’ll have a nice reunion scene. Men will be within this scene though so if I want them to have a girl moment, I need to deliberately separate her mom. Overall, I don’t know yet what type of relationship they’ll have.

Ansgarde + her mom: complex relationship. The only conversations I can imagine would be centered around her son. But there’s potential to argue about work, family, responsibilities. We’ll see if I can expand their relationship in this book.

Hmmm. I can’t think of more female characters. I should consider adding more if the story allows me.

DragonSky: pass ✅

Drafted but I’m planning to rewrite it one day.
One pov: female.

Ansgarde + her mom: complex relationship. They talk about her future, interests, etc. Pass.

Ansgarde + Spinel: complex best friend/sidekick relationship. they talk about adventures and hobbies and food. Pass.

Ansgarde + Tephra: antagonistic relationship. they talk about… dragons.

Ansgarde + Olivine: friendly relationship but not explored a lot. They also talk about dragons.

Merlin and the Flannan Isle Lighthouse Mystery: Fail 😐

Half-drafted.
One pov (male)

Miss Star is a major female character in this one.
I actually can’t think of other female characters I might have introduced or even mentioned. My, oh, my.

This is a limited cast book, but this is a problem because I can think of 9 male characters off the top of my head and just one woman??? I have to address this.

I could add Merlin’s mom to the mix. I think that would be actually awesome. I haven’t written her yet ever across so many books in this universe.

Arch Nephilim. Pass ✅

Only started.
One pov: female.

Parison and Briolette: complex relationship. They talk about another woman, actually.

I haven’t written much of it but there are opportunities.

Parison + Amberina: they could become friends. They both have dangerous secrets.

Parison + Piggin (a pet flying ferret): close relationship. Piggin doesn’t talk, but Parison can spill her heart out to her.

Parison + Jade: could be an interesting dynamic since Jade is a high ranking angel.

And of course, I’m looking forward to exploring the relationship between Parison and Aurene. No men need to be involved in this conversation.

Damn, it’s been a long time since I worked on this book. I’m tempted to drop everything and write this one again.

So overall, my books are all over the place. Some pass easily. Some pass with a stretch. Some blatantly fail. It certainly gives me much to think about when I go about writing and editing.

[Kamiccola]

I think, in this situation, it’s even more important to show that women are more than just side cast to men. Even if men in the story don’t accept it.

Even from a man’s pov. He can observe women talking to each other.