So, some of you might know that I review/react to writing advice articles on my YouTube channel Fox_in_Thoughts and I recently read an article promising to give advice on how to write a great fantasy novel (video not uploaded yet). It was written by a fantasy author.
In the end, the article didn’t say anything about what makes a great fantasy novel
Surprised? No. Not I Articles rarely live up to their titles.
But that article got me wondering about what makes a “great fantasy novel”. Is there something that we can all agree on? Think Narnia, Lord of the Rings, the books of Earthsea, possibly His Dark Materials trilogy (I understand “great” might be subjective).
I might make a video about this because I think it’s worth discussing and I might include your comments (I’ll mention Wacky, but not any specific usernames unless you want me to).
Any ideas?
(If you’re wondering why I didn’t put this in fox chat, I’m not done with the current topic in fox chat, so that’s why I’m making a new discussion post which I haven’t done in a long time.)
Narnia, Lord of the Rings, His Dark Materials all have intricate world building which is so immersive that you feel like you can get lost in this world by reading the books. It feels like a real place. It’s lively. It’s filled with all kinds of people. It’s got culture.
Lively might be a keyword here.
As a writer, writing a lively world might be imagining being there as one of the people or one of the creatures. If you can imagine being there, you might be able to write something like Narnia or LOTR or HDM.
I’m not a novelist but a manga-ka so my ideas about what makes a good fantasy novel are different than others. Essentially I ask authors in the genre to stretch their imaginations and take inspiration from all over the world.
You’ve perfectly hit on something I think I said in another thread, that YouTubers are really only there to plug their own work. It’s just a social network to them for getting their names out there, and they never read anyone else’s books so they can’t use famous works as their examples. They only mention their own books, and since I’ve never read their books those examples are useless to me, especially when they say things like, “Here’s a good example of show not tell from my first chapter…” Like how do you know that’s a good example, hmmm? Have literary experts around the globe discussed your book and arrived at that conclusion? Have school teachers and professors taught your book to their classes because of its good examples? If those writers haven’t read other books, I find it hard to believe their own are any good, and their advice is usually useless.
But getting back to your question! I think what makes a great fantasy novel is great characters that make you feel things: pull at your heartstrings, make you laugh, make you care about their struggle. I’m picturing Howl’s Moving Castle right now and how I felt so much sympathy for Sophie and Calcifer in particular. And how happy I was at the end when, yanno, spoiler, but anyway…it was a great book! ヽ(^。^)丿
What makes a good fantasy novel is when the author focuses on the plot, not everyone constantly snogging and hooking up with each other. Fantasy is for epic battles, not sex scenes (even if they make me burst out laughing)
For me, what makes a great fantasy novel, is when I am engrossed in the world-building, lore, characters, and history that I wished I lived there to experience what that’s like.
One Piece makes me feel that way, along with Tower of God. Until I realize how dangerous those places are, then I mind changes slightly.
Hmmm, true, but let me be nitpicky? devil’s advocate? and say, can’t you say that about any good work of fiction? Any real good book has great characters that make you feel things. You can get your heartstrings pulled in Howl’s Moving Castle just as you can in A Man Called Ove. Doesn’t have to be fantasy. So, what makes a great fantasy novel in particular?
Challenging you (but idk the answer. I’m thinking, too.)
This part is similar to what I’ve thought makes great fantasy. It’s so well-written stuff that you want to live there. Well, maybe not “live” for me. Maybe visit. I want to visit Narnia, for example.
So, let’s push this further. Let’s squeeze this topic until there’s nothing left.
What about great fantasy’s world-building makes it so great, you think? Does it have to go into a lot of detail to be great, or no? Is there something that all great fantasy’s world-building have in common, you think?
Good point! Idk but maybe it’s being able to pull your heartstrings despite being a fantasy character, or an ordinary human character in an extremely unusual situation…? For instance, have you ever read The House on the Cerulean Sea ? If you have and liked it, the sequel is out now! I’m waiting for it to go on sale, and then it’s going on my Kindle to sit for a year or more until I overcome my terminal tsundoku. (>‿◠)
But I digress. In that book, the main character’s a normal human who gets assigned to investigate a home for unusual children: one’s a dragon, one’s a gnome, etc. and they all have issues because of how the normals treat them. Their situation combined with their interesting personalities has you laughing and crying in places.
Okay, thinking about that last paragraph for a moment made me realize that really, the thing that moved me about the book is how the fantasy characters were experiencing a perfectly human occurrence, that being literal racism. So maybe there’s actually no difference between fantasy and other fiction to me. ¯\_(ﭢ)_/¯
I don’t think it’s the worldbuilding that makes a fantasy novel great. Fantasy novels, arguably, by definition takes place in a secondary space, whether alternative worlds (Tolkien), parallel worlds (Pullman) or extensions to ‘real’ worlds (Rowling). So I consider worldbuilding to be the minimum requirement regardless of the scope of the world. It’s what I would expect.
Genres are funny things. They’re a common abstract pattern of elements within a book determined by how that book is received by readers. Look at Piranesi by Susanna Clarke. It sits in the ‘General Fiction’ shelves in Waterstones. Meanwhile, her other novel Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell sits in the SFF section. Both are fantasy novels with a certain literary leaning. It seems the only reason why these books sit on different shelves is that the former won the Women’s Prize for Fiction and the latter won a Hugo.
What I mean to say is genres are weird and therefore determining what’s great for a genre can be tricky.
Ultimately what matters is that the novel speaks to the human experience. I say experience here because it’s not simply ‘characters’ or ‘plot’, but the diagetic combination of both occurring in the ‘world’. Experience like love, joy, struggles, setbacks, overcoming obstacles, victory, despair and hope. And great novels run the gamut of experience.
so funny to see this word XD
Do many readers know it? Not even all Japanese readers know it
Hmm, that’s interesting. So for you, it’s the characters pulling at your heartstrings that’s the major element you use to judge whether or not a book is a great book, fantasy or not.
Can you think of any epic fantasies that you like and why you like them? Is it still the characters pulling at heartstrings?
Oh! I assumed it was a common term. I only know it because I often watch Robin Waldun videos on YouTube, and I figure that once I’ve heard of something, then everyone has. I’m always the last to know anything. (♯^.^ღ)
I honestly can’t think of any epic fantasies I’ve ever read, although I’ve seen the LoTR films. And yup, it was entirely the character interactions that made those films awesome to me. The plot seemed pretty silly, but I loved the characters. ( ˘ ³˘) (˘ᴗ˘ღ)
I’ve assumed this, too, but apparently it’s not XD I love it though. It’s like a TBR but you’re in worse trouble because you likely have read some of them and they’re staring you down, telling you to finish. Although, I have seen it being said in a TBR type of way as well.
The only one that jumps to mind is Star Wars. The universe and plot actually seem pretty interesting, but I never really liked any of the characters, although oddly I like all the actors. Hated the movies, especially the ones with Padme and Anakin. It was worth it just to watch them for her ridiculous outfits, though.
Articles rarely live up to their titles.
(but idk the answer. I’m thinking, too.)
