I think I am missing what is so bad about his philosophy. Maybe ‘cult of… Something Negative’?
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In all likelihood. I has been required in the last 2 years.
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They’re really taking this seriously, aren’t they? I remember when the Wattys
were a bit of fun and they even had popularity contests. Now they really want
more books published, don’t they? Not that it’s a bad thing, but the Wattys have
really changed in the last five or so years. They also had an Attys, hosted by
Margaret Attwood for poetry at one point, when she was really into Wattpad.
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Yes, otherwise, how are they going to judge? Like, for sure, they will drop a whole bunch of novels at the entry point because of horrid grammar. But then, they have to bucket out long list and shortlist, so loglines and summaries come into play.
It’s really beneficial for us because in the end of the prep you have everything ready for submissions everywhere you want to. Logline, blurb, summary and an edited novel manuscript. Basically, toss it into Watty’s pot and then submit elsewhere as well. If you get acceptance from something promising, just reject the Watty. (Shrug) at least that’s why I see it.
Winning a Watty gets you Stars so it means your book will be viewed as having a potential to be published. So, yes, you have to do normal paperwork. And the more discerning Wattpad is, the better audience it will hopefully attract.
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Gosh, it was so long I had to break it into 2 bits on Wattpad. Here is the full text, lol.
#Watty2022 prep convo 6
By now I went through Kacy’s Act 1. Aside from leaving feedback as comments on her nifty Google Docs, I used highlighter to identify common troubleshooting items. They’ll be different for different writers but for Kacy, I highlighted:
Yellow: Check the sentence structure. You might be able to break them into simpler bits.
Orange: This is a repeat of what I’ve already seen/understand, a restatement etc. I suggest taking it out.
Blue: I suggest changing your word choice to a simpler ones or omitting too-pretty dialogue tags/replacing them with actions
All three of these are common items to look at whether you’re self-editing or feedbacking for someone.
With Kacy’s manuscript, I went on orange like I craved Fanta at the start of her first chapter. For the first one thousand words I felt like Kacy was priming her engine before going on the wild ride that was the rest of her Chapter 1.
My problem wasn’t that she was establishing characters and the setting. My problem was that she was establishing it outside and before the story kicked in, without the visceral connection to the happenings.
Kacy took my feedback to heart and redrafted chapter one, while I was reading the rest of her Act 1. I like the new version far better, so high-five, Kacy!
As someone who rewrites my own chapter-1s a lot and never quite likes them, I accept that it’s the most challenging part of the story to write, particularly because of the need to prime the engine.
It’s only natural. You sit down to a blank sheet and nothing of your story exists yet. Nothing is known. So, the temptation to tell all the details that would come in handy is huge. But, if we don’t really care for Rule This and Character That till chapter 10, there is no need to slide it into chapter 1. Chapter 1’s main function is to hook the reader on the character and their conflict, so everything else is on need to know basis.
To further proof Kacy’s chapter 1, I recommended her to take a look at the Story Labs. It’s a great place for her to receive feedback on her new and shiny chapter 1.
Quick Tip! Psst, Nick of Wattpa’s HQ runs Story Labs Discord server. There, you could submit your chapter 1 for his eval. But check thin skin at the doors.
State tuned to see my process and tell me about yours!
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I understand that they want to make it their serious writers contest during the year, which is fair enough since they actually wanna publish the winner but I think that Wattpad should maybe run a CampNaNoWriMo contest in July as well as ONC. For something a bit more fun and community orientated. But that’s a post for another day.
So basically yeah, I understand that to an extent if the end goal is to make a publishable story for wholesale consumption but I think that 50k is unfair in some instances when the story can be wrapped up in 45k and adding more will spoil it. I dunno. Maybe they can compromise that or something.
I would definitely just accept complete 40k+ novels at the first stage, then the badly written ones and then the ones with summaries and log lines. I guess doing it in stages would help a lot, like ONC. But with completed stories. People are interested in the Wattys process to a point, like the ONC. But little is known about the Wattys process compared to the ONC. And I think that makes some people unsure about joining as well.
If you want to send it off for traditional publishing yes. Wattpad assume that is the route you want to take. I’m not even sure about the traditional publishing route. I’m still thinking about that aspect. But I get the prep part. It is practice in a way if you want to do that. I’m not expecting to be a NYT Bestseller or even get famous from all this. I guess I am looking to do in more on my own terms, the publishing aspect and I know that it will be harder but I want as much control as I can have, since it’s my creative work.
If an indie or another publishing company came along and met as much of my criteria as they could, then I probably wouldn’t begrudge that either, or if Wattpad wanted to work with me. I dunno. Maybe I am a control freak and a perfectionist.
Rejecting the Watty isn’t the worst thing ever and accepting it isn’t bad. I’m just considering the pros and the cons of each route. I want to think more about Paid Stories/Wattpad books vs Trad Pub vs Indie Pub vs Self Pub. There are a lot of options out there and it’s hard to exactly find the one that will work for you. But I guess there’s no harm in trying WP Books if it comes to it and they are gonna work with you.
Potential to be published by whom? Wattpad? Amazon? Hachette? Me? What if you want to use the Wattys for some exposure for your self published works/ works you will potentially self publish and see how well you do? I’m sure there’s nothing against that but will Wattpad penalise you if you win?
Nothing wrong with Wattpad publishing your story and you entering it that way but it seems a bit limiting. I’d rather have the option of “Wattpad can publish your story” or “you can get a cash prize” or something along those lines. I’d like the choice but that’s just me.
I suppose that the paperwork aspect is good practice if you want to submit to other publishers/self publish. It breeds good habits from that aspect. I get that but I still find some parts of it a bit arbitrary but again you can’t please everyone.
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Yup, publishing through Wattpad. It’s a Wattpad contest after all and Wattpad is trying to develop a publishing house. Both having it at 50K and doing the paperwork is building good habits and good standards even if Wattpad is not your published of choice.
Tbh, ONC is already taxing the ambassadors to the max. Watty is NOT like ONC. Watty is about creating a complete 50K+ novel on your own and pitching it to Wattpad to your best ability. It is an open-to-all intro to the world of publishing. It’s completely on you to meet its requirements. Nobody stops you from doing it. You get as many years as you want to write and perfect your 50K words, as long as you publish it in the last 2 years. 50K in and of itself is not really hard. Honestly, if you can make 45K story perfect, you sure can make a perfect 50K one. And you don’t even have to win it to get on the radar. There are writers who got invited in the Stars from Short List.
Wattpad doesn’t penalize you for a win. Not sure where you are getting that from. I put Watty winner (out of 40K entries) on my cover letters when I query. Now, if an agent holds it against me, well, it’s their problem, not Wattpad’s.
Also, iirc, they have Ambys, which is an everything, every length, written whenever contest. You can try that with under 50K if you feel that it stands a chance there. Tbh, I have no idea what that contest does and who/why/how wins it.
And Wattpad also ran Stars Who Did NaNo for two years in a row.
All I know is that Watty is the only way to exposure for me, because I don’t do Social Media.
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Exactly! 50k is like the standard for a story to be considered a novella, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Wattpad to put that requirement on stories to enter (as they would want to publish the winner as a full-length novel). And they have to have a way to cull many stories early on, which is where loglines and blurbs come in.
Wattpad is giving authors an opportunity to showcase their stories, and it’s our job as authors to jump through the hoops they put out for that.
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Hey this is a really good point. Some people think that you’ve lost your chances of publishing if you post to Wattpad first or that people who post online can’t get picked up by presses, but this isn’t true anymore. Plenty of agents and publishing houses (especially independent houses) support writers who begin their careers online first, some even accepting manuscripts that have been published on Wattpad or Royal Road, etc. (like GurtDog, for example). It really is up to the agent or the press
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Fair enough from that POV. And having good habits is good, but I do still disagree with the 50k mark in some circumstances. (See below).
My point is, what if you have a brilliant novel and it ends at 45k? And you don’t want to add 5k of filler to ruin the story? As far as I am concerned, anything over 40k is a novel. I don’t know what people intend to do with the 10k in between the 40k and 50k. Why is ONC between 20-40k words if a novel starts at 40k? It’s about quality over quantity. I think that the 50k mark is a bit unfair in some circumstances. 45k is not a short story, and it’s not a novella.
Yes, writing 50k isn’t hard, but it’s about the story making sense too. I hate filler. I don’t have an issue with writing 50k. I just think that if a story has more filler to get to 50k and that effects the overall quality of the novel that it might be unfairly penalised in the judging for having a lot of filler (5k or more).
I meant if you rejected their Watty, would they stop promoting your story on the main page, or to people? I don’t care about agents. It’s a good thing to put on your query letters.
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You can almost always improve a story by adding some word count. Asking the question “what conclusions are my characters drawing from this?” alone will strengthen your work, as well as searching for places to implement emotional beats or adding some descriptions to flesh out a scene. There’s a difference between filler and then enhancing prose. Editing isn’t always about taking the word count down as much as possible, it’s about improving the work as a whole. Adding word count is often the way to do that. You can add word count that contributes to the story in a way that doesn’t involve writing filler
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I agree with this completely. Polonius may have said “brevity is the soul of wit,” but there’s nothing stopping 250K words from being just as insightful on average as 50K—and you’ll find what makes some of those longer books longer is that process of asking questions Rowan mentions, seeing what themes the characters are exploring or what the purpose of the story truly is. We just talk about trimming so much on Wattpad because it’s a site where people don’t have the patience for longer work or sometimes the ability to appreciate something that can’t be neatly digested in one sitting. If it helps, think about any of the longer successful books you’ve read @Churro , and what would have been missing had they aimed for a shorter word count.
Something like The Great Gatsby, sitting just under 50K words, doesn’t need to be any longer than it is, but that’s not to say Fitzgerald couldn’t have written a version quadruple the length that’s just as good. That comes with the ability to understand the nuance of longer stories and their pacing, and a patience that again isn’t encouraged on Wattpad. Look at how many people complain Gatsby, already a very short book, takes too long in its first chapter to get anywhere—or how with that sci-fi excerpt I posted a few months ago, people were calling it quits in the first paragraph.
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Honestly, it sounds like you really have your heart set on just one specific story that ended at 45K. Assuming it is so perfect you can’t add a single word without destroying its impact… So, it’s not eligible for Watty. So what? Some people, including me, withdrew from ONC before because they went over word count. It’s mot the end of the world. Write another one and enter that one into the pool. If you win, use that success to highlight the shorter form one. If it’s truly perfect, it will take off with the promotion Wattpad offers other works from the Stars. You are not only going to write one novel, do you?
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Re: the last paragraph, CJ was kind enough to reopen the thread with the sci-fi story in question:
If I recall correctly, this novella was under 50K words, for what it’s worth.
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Can confirm. My publisher knows about me using Wattpad (they also follow me on social media so know I’m posting on wattpad frequently) I’m allowed to keep up 3 chapters on there as a teaser as well. They love that I use wattpad. Mainly because it gets them and me new buyers when it comes out
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I don’t think Lío works like that. It’s one of those stories that has several threads and follows different stories. It’s kinda like a TV show in a way. It’s not a traditional heroes journey schtick. I think that is unfair that everything has to be 50k. Like 50k is the gold standard for everything. That’s the part that annoys me. Everyone is brainwashed by 50k. 50k.
Adding word count doesn’t always enhance the story, if the arc is sealed. It’s not just about adding words to it, it is also about improving what is there sometimes without adding words. I find myself deleting a lot of stuff to be honest. I’m not disputing either that adding things to the story does improve it (it might in some cases) but it doesn’t always work.
I have a conclusion worked for some of my stories but it’s not meeting the word count. The character arcs are all wrapped up. And I have also read great stories under 50k that wouldn’t get a look in on something like the Wattys because of the word count. I think that is the one unfair thing. They should have compromised around 40k.
Maybe I’m just very particular with my stories. My prose is very to the point. I’m not much of a purple prose person. I want people to read and understand it without asking questions. I don’t know what I can do to enhance the prose sometimes other than just edit the grammar and the punctuation.
I find it hard to add a lot of words to what I improve. I find myself deleting a lot of stuff for some reason. Maybe I am just one of those people who just are minimalistic. I do understand that some people can add a lot of words to improve their story. And I know that it works for some people but it’s just hard for me to add things. Maybe I’m the exception.
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I just don’t think you understand that 50k is novel-length, and anything below that is novella length. The Wattys is a novel contest. Do a critique exchange with someone and start thinking objectively, or as Sol Stein recommends, try and “look at your story through the lens of either an author you admire or an author whose work you despise.” It’s a great method for fostering objective thought and finding places where you can add word count to improve your story. I’d be damn surprised if you can’t find a way to get that word count up, stories are bare-bones if they’re just character arcs. You can use description, narrative summary, and immediate scenes along with emotional craft to bring them to a more fleshed-out, complete state.
TL;DR: People aren’t brainwashed by 50k, 50k is just what a novel is.
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Hmm. That’s a good idea but I tend to steer toward stories that are less than 350 pages. I have an incredibly horrible attention span, and I can’t for the life of me read long books without a massive break.
I should do that. Make some sort of essay about it. Yeah, that’s my point as well. It doesn’t need to be longer than it is it. That’s also a fair point about it maybe being a good book if it was longer if Gatsby kept up the momentum. But not every story is going to be over 50k. It’s just how it is.
And it’s also an interesting point that you do happen to bring up about the nuance of longer stories. Some people also get frustrated with TV shows being slow burners but they do get rewarded for sticking around and watching it. But I don’t understand how people do sometimes drop books because they’re slow and stick about TV shows. That’s weird to me.
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I don’t even know if I can get 50k for my other ones. I’m thinking a lot about them. I’m trying my best to smash records and go for it but I always fall short.
And just because a story is good it doesn’t mean that Wattpad is gonna let it win because they don’t see market value in it. I want to enter the Wattys but I think that it’s hard to play the game sometimes. They want something they can sell. Not just something that’s good. They want a market for the story.
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Some people say that it’s 40k, and others say 50k. But the think that I can’t understand is that a novella is 20-40k usually but a novel is 50k. What’s happened to the other 10k? Is it just there in the void? Would it not make sense for it to be 20-49k and then 50k+? I’m talking about in general, not just the Wattpad contests. I just can’t wrap my head around the actual categorisation of lengths.
I would have never thought of doing what Sol Stein recommends. That’s an interesting thing. A perspective change looking at a story through the eyes of an author you like/hate. Would that require using their writing methods? (Like for an example if someone wasn’t a big fan of Sarah J Maas, they would pretend to be using her perspective and her techniques to see the story?)
I am good at sorting my ideas and structuring them and making sense of them but I’m not always good at adding ideas to what I already have. It takes me a long time to generate new ideas on what I already have. It has to be a flash of inspiration and I don’t know how to do it outside of that.
I do need to flesh out things. I find it hard sometimes. I just write and I’m not a very descriptive writer. I’m very to the point like I mentioned before and my chapters usually are short. Snappy style. I need to really work on that. Lío has a lot of action and movements but it’s not overly descriptive and full of prose. It’s quite action packed despite being a drama.
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