While the ONC contest considered 40k to be the maximum word count for a novella, anything under 50k is considered to be a novella in the publishing industry.. It only makes sense for the Wattys to accept novels above 50k words because it is a novel contest and Wattpad is trying to begin its own "press’ if you will, whereas most presses that publish novels will not accept works under 50k because, well, they’re novellas at that point. You’ll see it in almost all of the query instructions for the presses that you submit to, the ones that publish novels. They’re usually very clear about that.
I understand where your confusion might be coming from as the ONC contest capped WC at 40k and as other authors typically recommend 30k-40k for novellas because that’s a “sweet spot,” if you will.
Ah yes, thanks for the clarity. It makes more sense. And I understand it but I think that maybe Wattpad needs to make it clearer that it is 50k because it is a novel contest. Or maybe I’m just not reading it and think its clear enough myself.
Haha yeah that is why I’m confused to be honest. I didn’t understand that. But it is what it is.
Well, it sounds like you don’t trust Wattys process or judgment, but if there is anyone at all whose judgment you trust, you can ask them to look at a few chapters and see if there is anything systemically missing. For example, do you have backdrops for each change of scene/scenery? Can your actors use more fleshing out of the follow throughs? Take your outline against plotbeats and see if you can use a plot beat somewhere to get a reaction/connection. The big scenes, are they big enough? From what I seen of your ideas you tend to love stories, and they tend to sprawl because of feelings descriptions and ups and downs of the relationships.
I have a few friends. And it’s more I don’t find it logical at times, but I guess Wattpad do what they do because well, they make the rules and they want to have a published manuscript by the end of it all.
I am thinking of completing Lio (it’s almost done) and just leaving it out of the Wattys since it’s too experimental. I have The Chronicles of Levi (YA), Happy Hour (Contemporary Lit/Romance), Jank (Comedy/Slice of Life), Marvin (Romance) and I Must Confess (Drama/Comedy) left as possible entrants.
I’m not sure which one would work best. Jank has the most chapters posted, but I don’t know how much I need to stretch it out for 50k and I’m not sure if it will work as a traditionally published novel. The main character also narrates the story with an accent.
TCOL follows Levi and his friends and his rocky relationship with his parents. (It needs a bit more of a plot developed tbh).
Happy Hour follows Jerry Jimenez, a man in his early 40s who has four ex-wives and runs a club called Happy Hour from the money he made being CEO of a local TV company. He is trying to find his own form of happiness, and he doesn’t approve of his daughter Sara’s boyfriend. He’s trying to juggle everything at once too. His exes, his job, and his family life.
I Must Confess is about a French actor called Roman Algabhar who only gets comedy roles and sidekick characters. This is his first drama role as the main character playing a priest in an international movie. He also falls in love with his co-star and that makes things difficult.
Marvin is about Marvin Rios, a lawyer who broke up with his ex, Adrian, and is trying to get over him. His rowdy neighbor, Rico makes his life difficult and they conflict almost daily. Marvin’s friend, Henry makes him download an app, and he accidentally matches Rico on it without realizing it’s him, and they end up dating. Chaos ensues.
When I pick one, I will be thinking:
In general, I try to have those. I try my best to establish each scene without being too wordy.
Hmmm. Fleshing out in their personalities?
Do you recommend any plot beat sheets? There are a lot of those. Some of them are a bit better than others.
I try to make them be.
Yeah, I discussed them all above. You can read and maybe help me decide based on that. I am good at coming up with ideas, but my issue is finishing them. I do think those ideas have potential of some sort.
I only use Save the Cat, Writes a Novel, because they are so straightforward. I added the romance-specific ones from Romancing the Beat in my new outline but I didn’t write the story yet, so I can’t comment on how natural they feel.
Given how little time you have, I would suggest working on any story that is the closest to completion. Because right now, at least for me, there is not enough time to do much beside editing.
If you don’t mind me adding onto this, there are other beat sheets that may work for you and other methods that don’t use beats at all, such as John Truby’s 22 steps, John Garder’s plotting methods that also tend to be more organic, I also really like Lawrence Block’s methods that he outlines in Telling Lies for Fun and Profit, and I really like the beats that Ben Bova lays out in his book On Writing Science Fiction that Sells–while the book talks about science fiction, Bova’s methods are translatable to other genres for sure.
There’s nothing wrong with Save the Cat and Blake Snyder has done a lot for us, but it isn’t the only method out there.
Absolutely! It’s just what I found the easiest and Jessica Brody’s book is pretty much the most readable and practical book I have come across so far (Save the Cat/Writes a Novel). I mean her, not Snyder’s STC on screenwriting, in the interests of accuracy.
Yeah sorry I should’ve mentioned that Brody’s book is probably the best reference for novels, and she does a good job of keeping the integrity of Snyder’s work
Definitely some of the other methods I mentioned (like Truby’s and Sol Stein’s and Gardners) their books do NOT fall under the category of ‘readable’ and ‘practical’ they are very good but also dry
Tell me about it! I couldn’t fight through Turby, heh. I grabbed free sample from Block’s book to see if I like it. For some reason, it’s really pricey and library doesn’t carry it.
ooh now Lawrence Block’s book is readable and a very good one, its here on Thriftbooks for less than $5. I really liked reading his essays over my coffee in the morning, he’s a very engaging writer.
Have you read Romancing the Beat? I just downloaded it as I figured it could be a compliment to Save the Cat for romance stories specifically as I feel like Save the Cat perhaps works better for stories with more external motivation and conflict (it worked super well for Faceclaim where the goal is very concrete). So I’m using it to perhaps figure out the structure for SLB.
I actually got it for outlining the Fireman’s Girl. I used the Save the Cat for the External Plot, but felt that Romance might be lagging, so I grabbed Romance beats and specified each romantic stage as well. I think I am starting to see myself in the thriller romance subcategory, so fingers crossed this works. If Fireman’s Girl works out, I will use the same technique in plotting next book, whatever it is.
In Canada, so using Amazon. Usually, I can get stuff for ‘free’ from Amazon, because our peer reward program at work lets us put our ‘thank you’ points into Amazon e-cards. But it is being transferred to a different awards supplier, so we are on hiatus with points.
That is my exact feeling on Save the Cat as well. It works super well when the motivation/threat is external but less so for internal driving forces. The book’s examples for Romance didn’t quite work for me either (well the story they used had more of an external threat than most romances at least). So I’m hoping merging the Romance beat with it will help me perfect my outlines
Yeah, particularly because I ma naturally inclined to write adventures/backstories vs the whole romance construction. I love romances, but I love my whirlwind ones. So, I hope it will help me to insert the sufficient number of scenes that will make romance feel authentic.
I haven’t really heard of most of these alternative beat sheets/outlines. Thanks for adding them here, I will check them out and see if any of them work for me.
What about taking a bunch of the templates, and making your own method too (if you find some of the aforementioned beat sheets/plotting methods useful)? I’m sure that works for some people. I have Scrivener and I’m sure I could plan something decent in that.
This is exactly what I do. My method is most similar to John Truby’s and Save the Cat’s combined with tips on loose plot structure by Stephen King. This is why studying the craft of fiction is so damn cool, it gives you the tools and information you need to develop your own method while also increasing your knowledge so that you can be confident about the work that you produce.
they are very good but also dry
